hankamsTeilnehmer20. Oktober 2021 um 21:34 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
Dear Alfred and Klaus,
It is about a year ago that you helped me finding my way around in the wonder world of Zeppelin, especially the 1930 SAF flight. Some time ago I completed an article discussing my collection, which now finally has appeared as a small book. I would like to send you a copy, be it that it is in Dutch, but the pictures tell a story … Could you please send me your home address to my email:
Looking forward to hearing from you!
Dik Bakker, the NetherlandshankamsTeilnehmer28. Oktober 2020 um 22:33 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
Thanks so much, Alfred, also for your patience … Indeed, I have missed a few exchanges, but now everything seems to be retrievable. What I did so far is searching for ‘Barcelona’; then one gets the exchanges we had over the airmail stamps, and then you can click on the link to this thread … not necessary anymore! Fine.
I think I have understood now: there were probably 1.000 – 1.500 pieces that went from Recife to Rio or the other way around (in my table I have put 500 for each of the two trajectories as an estimate). Your Anhänge from Rio Grande/backside (Congrats!) has the same cancel as mine (repeated here, though mine is a von Meister). So: can I be confident that my letter did make it from Rio to Recife on board the Zeppelin?
DikhankamsTeilnehmer27. Oktober 2020 um 23:20 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
Dear Alfred, Klaus and you other zeppelinistas,
There seem to have been mail from Rio to Recife on board during the 25th May flight. However, I guess the Meister letter in the Anhänge was not. Condor brought it to Recife. I wonder, however, why they put the 26th May Zeppelin cancel on the back anyway. It was never on board the LZ127 and reached Chicago via the regular mail route. Isn’t that some kind of make-belief or cheating? What would a letter that did go on board look like, if any at all? I understand that some mail was taken on board in Rio, both from Meister and from other countries.hankamsTeilnehmer16. Oktober 2020 um 17:51 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42hankamsTeilnehmer14. Oktober 2020 um 18:09 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42hankamsTeilnehmer14. Oktober 2020 um 18:06 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
The last piece I have to offer in this section is a SAF card from Halle to Habana. There will be more of these, I presume, but they will not all be directed to Cerro, then outside of Habana, now a suburb of the capital. It went to a local post office, which charged a Cuban 1 centavo ‚to pay‘, which so far I have not seen on other pieces, making it into a real, probably unexpected Mischfrankatur.
Furthermore: Klaus, could I use your expertely crafted picture with the reversed detail of the Sevilla cancel inserted in the backside of my previous example in my article, of course owing up to the fact that it is not my creation …?hankamsTeilnehmer13. Oktober 2020 um 11:50 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
Dear Alfred, and all you zeppelinistas,
Sad and inspiring at the same time, your Darwinian approach to keeping this thread visible: to go on producing a rapid response in order to keep it in the list of the five latest entries. Might be the hidden objective of the moderators …
But back to 1930. You can see the people at BKM S.A being in shock about the bags of mail they probably had not counted on (I guess they did not get paid per letter or card; I see again your wonderful picture of the people at the Friedrichshafen post office, who must have had some experience with this …).
I have had another look at the 235 Meister pieces collected by Schier. I found seven pieces like yours and mine (mine is there, yours is not, so that makes eight being ‘known’). Most of these cluster around a low Meister number, but some are outliers, like yours. They are all, though, meant for Brazil, so I guess they came from one package or bag, handled routinely by an employee putting on 8 pesetas, using a sheet of Vaquer 4 pts, some sheets of the aero overprint 1 pta and one of the Congreso areo 1 pta, fitting them in the same way all the time (only one Ed.487 since it is quite big). Schier found two more pieces, sent to the USA, but he has made a mistake taking them twice, confusing numbers (‘6’ instead of ‘8’) on his photocopies (he did not know about the origin of the numbers). 7 pieces on 233 is 3%. Now let us speculate that they had one sheet only of 50 of the Ed.487 (500 were produced). If all 50 were used, then that is 3% of around 1600 – 1700 pieces, which is I think a reasonable estimate of the number of Meisters that went to Sevilla. A bit speculative, but not too outrageous: it would still comprise half of what went from Sevilla to Brazil (=3.269).
As for the cancellation of Spanish stamps and the catalogue prices for on piece after the classical period: this is a great point. Also the Edifil Especializado stops giving them after 1900 for the individual stamps. Most collectors of Spain that I know collect unused after 1900 (so do I, although I prefer used), and complain that it is virtually impossible to find really used examples from all the non-permanent series (the first is the 1905 Quijote, Ed.257-266). When you find them, they are mostly philatelic frankings – complete series on mail abroad etc. And that is what the Ed.Esp. gives you: a total price for the whole series on one or more pieces. For the 1930 Congreso this price surpasses the value for mint in the case by almost 50%! (I will send you a photocopy of these pages). Cancelled off piece are suspect; they are typically cancelled by order, you are right, so only to be trusted on piece, or with a clear place/date CDS. My impression is that collecting for Spaniards often means collecting as they come from the post office. The prices for used are constrained by price-with-hinge for before 1960 and by mint after. Some iconic series, e.g. the 300 year Quijote from 1905, are sought after on piece since they were available only 15 days and only in Madrid (1st-15th May 1905, see the one in the Anhänge). That you have the 4 x 4P of the regular Congreso on (Zeppelin!) piece is really fantastic, mouth-watering indeed (only 300 sheets of 50 printed). Let us assume that Harry was not a greedy collector and that Otto received his card safely back in a nice envelop, with a green Lakehurst zeppelin stamped on the other side … I guess a 10Pts would be Exhibition worthy (200 sheets printed only). I go on dreaming.
DikhankamsTeilnehmer12. Oktober 2020 um 20:01 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
Ah, Klaus, brilliant. Only a real Zeppelin detective would come up with the mirror solution. Indeed, the ink is thick on my cancel, so it was even thicker on the piece that went before. Great. Now I like the letter even more, although, unfortunately, mr. Maciá’s firm seems to be long gone from Habana. And the 5th June vs 6th June dates are confirmed by the few pieces that I have that were off loaded in Sevilla on the Heimfahrt.
If there are other analyses, I would of course be very happy to hear them, but I can settle for this one.
DikhankamsTeilnehmer12. Oktober 2020 um 17:31 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
The prefinal piece I want to share with you here has puzzled me for some time, but I have the following scenario. See both Anhänge.
Cuban businessman and stamp collector mr Maciá was in Europe in early May 1930, doing business from his hotel in Carlsbad (Chec). He had learned about the SAF when still at home and made himself the envelop in Anh.1. He managed to get it on board on 18 May, with the intention that it would be dropped off in Brazil (the 4RM) and then sent to Habana by airmail (whence the Cuban airmail stamp) or dropped off in Cuba (but why the stamp then?). The board post office had no clue what to do with this, and kept it until Sevilla, where it got a board cancel (4th June) and then the 5th June Sevilla cancel. From there it probably was returned to Cuba. There is a vague fragment of a cancel on both stamps which seems to be neither a Sevilla nor Habana cancel that I am familiar with.
This is my guess, but I am completely open to any better explanation, including it being a complete fake, in which case I have lost some €€ (I was the only bidder if I remember well) and an illusion, but then it was a nice fantasy as long as it lasted.
And Alfred, following your suggestion I have put an extra plastic cover around the Knorr card; I just read a story about him being one of the victims of the Hindenburg disaster of May 1937, helas.
Mit herzliche Grüße,
DikhankamsTeilnehmer11. Oktober 2020 um 10:39 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
Dear friends of the Zeppelin Mischfrankaturen,
A third piece that I can share with you is probably quite rare but also a clear fabrication. It has been produced for his own collection (or that of his wife) by Balloningeneur Ludwig Knorr, the author I think of many a card from the LZ127 to his own family. This one is from the SAF. On one side we find 2 times 2RM with real Bordstempel 22nd May (the day when they crossed the Equator, and Lady Hay Drummond-Hay wrote her cards), for the Friedrichshafen – Lakehurst leg, cancelled in Recife 23/5, on the other side the $1,30 plus unnecessary 5c, for the second leg, cancelled at Lakehurst 2/6. It has the one way American cachet, while it should have been the one with the complete triangle, of course. Not a very pretty card, and a complete fabrication by a crew member, but I still like it.hankamsTeilnehmer10. Oktober 2020 um 21:12 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
I fear that I cannot offer such an astounding, arguably unique and creatie piece as the DR/Schweiz one of aviator (I am intrigued, though, by his interest in Ballon Monte, but this is not the place to exchange thoughts and examples of these incredible pieces of airmail, I guess). Sticking to the subject, another example from my collection which will be topped by that exquisite Triesenberg to Florencia letter of Alfred’s is shown below. I have seen several of these Sonntag pieces in auctions, not only of the SAF but also later flights, between DR and Colombia, typically via Rio and Baranquilla. Still, it does fill in part of my collection that seeks to find ‚just one example of all possible combinations‘ (which is an impossible task anyway).hankamsTeilnehmer10. Oktober 2020 um 14:53 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
This thread is apparently still dangling somewhere on it own rather than be under LZ127 as Alfred has suggested some time ago … so I hope that it is still accessible for those interested in the 1930 SAF and other Spain related Zeppelin items. Continueing on the topic of spanish airmail stamps other than the 1922 overprints on this mail, I want to share a letter that I recently found in a Spanish auction. It is a not very spectacular von Meister piece Sevilla-Rio > USA, with three different stamps on it: the very regular Vaquer 4 pesetas, three airmail overprint 1 peseta, and the reason why I got interested: the 1 peseta airmail from the 1930 Ferrocarriles series. It has been cancelled 16th May, i.e. one day after the validity ran out. That is not too special, probably: Alfred has show a piece with the 1929 series already invalid for a year … But I wonder now where these stamps were put on the envelop. It must have been in Spain, since the series was available only 13 – 15 May. So, the representative in Sevilla (was that Baquera usw?) put this stamp on, but they must have been handling hundreds of pieces if not a few thousand of the 31.000 von Meisters … One would then expect that there must be more letters and cards with a stamp from this series, e.g. also the 4P. Still, it seems to be rather uncommon. Maybe they had only a few available (issued 25.000) or they realized that they were no longer valid?hankamsTeilnehmer10. Oktober 2020 um 11:20 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
(sorry again for having to do this in English, my German is too poor, it will make you smile rather than take my contribution seriously …).
As both Alfred and Klaus already know, I am an absoute beginner in this fascinating domain, a collector of Spanish philately, and only really interested in the LZ127 SAF flight since it landed in Spain, therefore creating quite a few pieces with Spanish stamps.
I think I have a few pieces that would qualify for this thread, and that I would like to show you if only for learning more about them. The first one is a poor cousin of the one shown by Klaus: a mix of the 4RM and a few Condor stamps. I guess they were put there, in Germany, for the last leg Rio to Bahia. Apparently, the sender was not aware of the possibility to have the letter being parachuted directly into Bahia on 24th May. It goes without the off-and-on-again extra Brazilian Zeppelin stamp that make Klaus’ card so interesting, helas.hankamsTeilnehmer7. Oktober 2020 um 22:45 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
I want to share a card from the SAF with you that more or less matches Alfred’s favourite. It does not come with a nice story about how I got it: it was simply won at an auction where I was the unwise person to pay the €10 more than the last person who was wiser than me. But now, having financially recovered, I am still quite pleased with it. The store about Lady Hay-Drummond has been told already by Alfred, so I leave that out. It seems that this card was typed on her reporter’s typewriter the same day that ‘Hayflower’ wrote the other card to herself, in handwriting, while crossing the Equator. Both cards I guess were bought at the Board Post Office. Alfred’s card has been left at the post office with two stamps and a real board cancel that same day. With mine, she waited a week, more or less when the LZ127 was over the Caribbean. One stgage later, so that saved her the 2RM. Therefore my card has only the 4RM on it. The compensation is that she carefully selected an example with the Blitz neben Adler error. Very unselfishly she sent this card to an acquaintance in London. Both cards have apparently been on top of another card that had just been given the purple Round Flight Cachet in Lakehurst (probably, one of our cards has been on top of the other). A nice detail here is that it has the signature of both the Lady and the Tramp (well, mr. von Wiegand, that is). I wonder whether she sent more cards on this trip. Looking for a photo of the Lady as well, I found this advertisement for lucky Strike cigarettes (Anhänge 3). Apparently, also in 1930 a lady did not feel too chique to make an extra buck, though I guess the old Lord Hay-Drummond Hay left her quite comfortable with a few £££, and her boss multimillionaire mr. William Randolph Hearst not only sponsored the Zeppelin, but must have paid star reporter couple Grace and Karl a decent salary as well. She should have thought of me, the future owner for some time of the card, and could have added a nice blue 2RM here as well. Or, better even, a pretty blue $2,60. But no, we prefer pieces with just the right tariffs.hankamsTeilnehmer6. Oktober 2020 um 21:15 UhrBeitragsanzahl: 42
That is a great photo, I also find moving in a way … the dedication to get all these hundreds and thousands of letters and cards to their destinations, giving the adressees the pleasure of receiving a nice card from a friend or a great piece for their collection. And then, 90 years later, still extending that pleasure to us, the next generation of collectors.